Domestic na Kanojo 215 Summary Discussion Thread
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- TurquoiseMoon2019-01-16 21:41:45.913Z2019-01-16 21:56:39.309Z
I think a lot of people are forgetting that it was Natsuo who sought Hina first... that Hina NEVER wanted to break up with him until she was asked to leave the school in exchange for keeping the scandal from being known to Natsuo. Did Natsuo ever find out the truth about the scandal? Not yet... and he himself couldn't be sure if Hina still loved him.
Rui is a filler for Hina... the one Natsuo depended on when things didn't work out between him and Hina. The fact is, Rui NEVER sacrificed anything as important as Hina did. She was never as selfless as Hina who left Natsuo not for her career, or her own selfish reasons but to protect his future even if she couldn't protect her own and took 90% of the damage.
People who say Hina was selfish and immature must be DENSE. If you were Hina, would you insist on your relationship with Natsuo instead of thinking about his future? Would you be able to support his relationship with another girl just to see your loved ones happy?
I can't even IMAGINE doing what Hina did. She acts like a child but she's mature enough and emotionally stable enough to take all that pain quietly and wait for things to unfold as they should without her romantic feelings getting in the way. If you remember, it was Rui who couldn't stay away from Natsuo knowing Hina and Natsuo had just broken up... knowing Natsuo was really fragile and vulnerable after that first heartbreak. But HINA NEVER EXPLOITED HER TIME WITH NATSUO TO STEAL HIM FROM RUI.
Between Hina and Rui, Hina is the better person. Natsuo just have to be man enough to admit that he cannot use Rui as rebound. There was never a closure between Hina and Natsuo. And they drifted apart because Hina's ex even lied about Hina moving on... Natsuo should NOT have even believed that crap. And what about his promise that he didn't care about dying for as long as he and Hina could be together forever?
I think Natsuo might choose either Hina or Rui or lose his memories and start all over again (duh!) or he'll die and get reincarnated... or he'll just die not knowing which one he loved more.
Or Hina can just die... but that would scar Natsuo forever, right?
Best ending... Hina and Natsuo would break all taboos and realize they're destined for each other. Because if he ends up with Rui that's just like the BIGGEST CLICHE of the century... like Fuuka... like the second love, the filler-girl who took up the vacuum in the guy's heart wins it all. And FUCK FUUKA, that's the worst way to end a love story.
I think you should read again the chapters from 20 to 32.
Hina knows Rui has fallen in love with Natsuo, she still masturbates thinking about Shuu and:
- says to Rui that is immoral for step-siblings to fall in love with each other.
- after that, she TRAMPLES over Rui's feelings deciding to take Natsuo for herself (at that moment, Rui does not know about Hina's feelings).
So far for the "best person". She has been as selfish as Rui or even worse. And a lot more irresponsible before she leaves (after, it's only atonement). When Rui talks her again in chapter 51, she cheers up for Hina even when she's the most hurt of the two. Chapter 145: Hina barges in Natsuo apartment when Rui is in the bathroom and kisses Natsuo, she tells him EVERYTHING. And someone says it's strange that later Rui tells her sister to not make moves on Natsuo when she's far away. And that Rui's jealousy comes only from "her insecurities".
But, mind me, I don't judge, love is a war.
Also, Natsuo is a big piece of trash.
PS: I forgot, but Natsuo knows why Hina left. She wrote a letter to him (not even the courage to have a proper break-up). So Rui did not hide nothing to him except that Hina was at the city of the trip. But to cheer him up, she had previously found it and she wanted to tell him, it's Natsuo that refused to know. And only when they meet at her apartment Hina behaves - finally - like an adult should have done from the first moment. Because the mess with the school is 99% her fault.
Also, chapter 65 -> that's probably the reason Rui wants to break up. She knows that Natsuo will start again to write "to move on".
It is very sad, considering all this, that Natsuo will 95% end with Hina again due to an out of the world idiocy the author did. But that's maybe better for Rui, finding a true good man instead of this grown-up kid.
- TurquoiseMoon2019-01-19 09:24:34.737Z2019-01-19 09:59:59.532Z
I do know the letter that Hina left for Natsuo... that letter didn't say exactly how the scandal was found out. Natsuo didn't know nor suspected that he could have been expelled for it, and his writing ambitions cut abruptly by it. Most of all, NATSUO DIDN'T SEE HINA BEGGING and CRYING ON HER KNEES SO THE PRINCIPAL WOULD SPARE HIM FROM THE SCANDAL. Until the end, Natsuo had NO IDEA WHO EXACTLY KNEW ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HINA. If Hina loved him less, SHE COULD HAVE LIED TO HER TEETH and told the principal that guy wasn't Natsuo, but she loved him too much to even make that denial to save her own skin.
Natsuo had no idea that even their parents had asked Hina to get away from hIm. The whole world was conspiring to break them up. And then RUI HAD TO GET INTO THE PICTURE TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR HER AND WORSE FOR HINA...
That sounds harsh. but that is as plain as daylight. If you were in Hina's shoes you would not brave all that crap by yourself. You would look for people to blame, you would have deep regrets and scorn your sister and ex-lover for having the time of their lives while you're suffering on your own. Whatever weaknesses she must have displayed (confessing to Natsuo randomly) is exactly what Hina already admits as her weakness.
What matters more was in the final round, Hina stood her ground. She was honest enough to admit her weakness, but brave enough NOT to give in and ruin Rui and Natsuo's relationship. Anyone who asks for more from Hina is asking the impossible.
Every time she accidentally touches Natsuo, she apologizes, even when she shouldn't. Natsuo was hers from the start after all... and maybe Natsuo felt the same that's why his body moved on its own to save her.
Hina doing some "adult stuff" to pleasure herself wasn't half as bad as Rui asking any random stranger (i.e. Natsuo) to give her sex, like she was asking for candy... with the excuse that she couldn't relate to people and sexual experience might solve that. On the contrary, anyone who thinks MASTURBATION IS WRONG or immoral must condemn half the world as GUILTY. It's not surprising if Hina imagined Shu... She was in a relationship with him, and maybe she never saw Natsuo as a "sex object" in the same way she might have felt for Shu. That's part of being an adult.
Anyone who thinks RUI was "unrealistic" for asking for sex from someone she had no relationship with is being plainly logical. I can't think of a girl living in the 21st century who knows nothing about AIDS or imagines that any VIRGIN out there will do "it" for charity. That's... UNHEALTHY... just like Rui's obsession, her possessiveness. Masturbation isn't.
Hina lost her career... her dream of becoming a good teacher. Hina staked all of that dream in getting in a relationship with a student and if her choice was ever WRONG she already paid the CONSEQUENCES of it. There was nothing else that anyone can blame Hina for... and even if Natsuo had a bigger part in that tragedy of hers, she NEVER blamed him even once and constantly supported his writing. Rui fueled her own insecurities with every other relationship Natsuo had with other people, then ended up breaking up with him.
In contrast, Hina never took Rui and Natsuo's relationship against them even if it hurt. She sincerely SINCERELY wished for them to be happy and already made up her mind that she could love him even if he chooses Rui.
Now tell me, how can anyone with a heart and soul even hate Hina?
Hina is the best girl... even for the writer. And I can vouch for that.
I rest my case.
I think you are too much personally fond of Hina to understand properly what went on. See also the comment above ("Team Hina".. bleah, this is not a footbal game). I don't care if Natsuo ends with each one of them as long as this Is consistent with the story or the characters' development. What I don't like are forced stunts as the one pulled by Sasuga Kei in these chapters. If she wanted for Rui and Natsuo to break up she could have arranged a much better set-up.
As for Hina, you are plainly wrong: I don't hate her at all. But, as a character, she had a lot of shortcomings. I understand she Is beautiful, she has boobs, she Is a sweetheart, she loves Natsuo. But she had little to no psichological development at all since she left Natsuo. She even gave up her dream to be a teacher, and that not for Natsuo (as she only transferred, she was not fired) but because she recognizes that being not her dream at all (she Is even encouraged by a student to continue but she quits the job anyway). Hinting that in reality she might have wanted to be a teacher only for following Shuu's path.
As for the shortcomings, There are a lot more than that.
First, she did not care at all about her sister's feelings when she takes Natsuo for herself, out of pure jealousy (her words, not mine) and she never showed remorse After. Ok, love Is war as I said. But at least Rui thought about this issue.
Second, she managed her relationship with Natsuo in the poorest way possibile. Apart being her seven years older, Natsuo Is a minor and you should understand, in certain countries that relationship Is viewed as minor abuse, and not without reasons. Only right thing she had to do would have been to say to Natsuo "OK, I love you too but we need to Be careful until graduation" and instead she behaves like a fifteen year old teenager with hormonal crisis, this while declaring to everyone that she's a grown-up adult. When she Is found out (99 percent her fault) she behaves like that with the principal because she is filled with guilt because she understands that it was her that put Natsuo's dream in danger. And then, she had not the courage to tell Natsuo directly she was leaving, but she leaves a letter. And anyway, it's pointless that she did not tell all the details in the letter, the basic points are addressed, that is, she Is breaking up for his sake. After that, I admired her when she stays firm on her resolve when she meets Natsuo again at the club trip. At least, if you take a decision, it's good that you don't change mind, I'm impressed by that.
Except that, not so long after she quits here "dream" job, she returns home and tries to retake Natsuo foe herself. When she reaches Natsuo at his home, when she's half drunk and confesses to Natsuo she still loves him (when Rui is in the bathroom and she hears everything), I thought she drunk alchool for gathering courage to confess again because that was too much of a coincidence.
And she lacks courage thererafter, when Rui wants to tell her about her and Natsuo, she says "I don't want to hear...".
And she lacks courage again after, in the case of the stalker, she should have called the police way before, and this put Natsuo in danger again.
All in all, I repeat, I don't hate her. Simply I don't find her being particularly appealing as a woman, maybe the future chapters will see her mature a lot (or maybe not, her wishy-washy aptitude matches with Natsuo's one, even if I don't know how two wishy-washy characters can keep a relationship alive).
About Rui: I understand what you did not find good about here and I have to admit that initially I was quite perplexed as well. An emotionless girl giving herself to the first one only to test it? And yes, initially I was not very fond of her, I thought she was a slut and that's all.
After the author explained a little her story and true motivations, however, I liked her a lot.
You have to keep in mind she had a trauma, which is her father leaving the family, which caused her quite a lot of pain. The same could have been true for Hina, too, but Hina was older and could react better.
Also, she had some communication issues. That lead her to have practically no friends. She never fell in love with someone. She does not think she could fell in love anyway. She feels empty. She is trying to have sex because she is desperately trying to find something that can let her feel fulfilled, that she has accomplished something. And with desperation, she finds that sex did not change anything in her.
After that, she starts to feel something for Natsuo and she does not even recognize it at the start, she never fell in love before after all.
And then, Rui starts to change. If you compare the Rui that goes to NYC to the one in the first episode, you can realize she was the one that matured and developed the most. She is no more emotionless, she has a dream which she wants to achieve with all herself, she fully expresses her feelings, she endured and fought a lot for his love. She always helped Natsuo in achieving his dream, even directly. For those that say that she's manipulative: I don't think so. She is only honest to her feelings (she practically never lies, she always speaks her mind, she has the courage to do so even if the situation is implesant for her) and she often does not find a better way to express herself than to be direct. Someone said to try to be in Hina's shoes. I wonder if they tried to put themselves in Rui's shoes, especially when her crush was trying to engage her with Al.. Is she selfish? Yes, but as most as the normal people is. I would to ask who would have behaved differently from her when love is involved. Is she Jealous? Yes, and it's normal to be so, especially with an indecisive and spineless man as Natsuo is...
Quite frankly, where Rui disappointed me the most, are exactly these last 2 chapters. And this is mainly forced by the author, we'll see how she will justify this breakup and, if it's really due to Rui's fear to be unable to deal with her jealousy, it practically negates all the character's development until now and this will make me like her much less.
As for Natsuo, this is a character i really hate very often. Indecisive, dense, spineless, for now he seems incapable to achieve his dreams even if he had all the favourable conditions. He does not understand that trust is not only a word and when you have someone caring for you, you have to care to her even more. We'll see if he finally will grow. For now, one has done next to nothing for the two womans of his life. Yes, Rui has changed a lot for him, but that's not a result of something Natsuo actually did, it's more a result of the strenght of her love for him. And he hurt both Rui and Hina s lot during time. Definitely a main character that still must find redemption. Yes, he's kind, we all know, he has a dream (now on hold) but being blunt, if I'd be Rui or Hina I'd have said to him a lot of time ago "get your shit together, you moron". Now, a way for him to be less an amoeba and to surprise me, would to refuse to break up with Rui, and following her in the US. But as he is still an invertebrate (and all in all, I don't know how much he really loves her after all), he will end to leave Rui go, then find that he still loves Hina, find the strenght to achieve his dream, and then finish with the most cliche ending of all.
For Rui's sake, I'd say that ending with Kajita now appears as a good ending, The problem is we don't know anything about this guy except is an hard worker, no development at all on that side. I'd hate if the author does not develop this character more if that's the ending.
- TurquoiseMoon2019-01-19 14:20:28.117Z2019-01-19 15:26:20.195Z
Hina had her flaws... every character real or fictional has them. Hina already suffered A LOT. She would have fought for her and Natsuo's reclick to show
Agreed. Hina is the best girl who loved natsuo and i wished her love will get returned at the end of the series. Team Hina forever!
Finally, there's someone with better explanations than mine...... You got the points for the whole story plot....... That's true, those Rui fans never sought the truth behind this drama and didn't try to understand the emotion that every protagonist characters has..... They made it personal and didn't put the objectiveness point of view.... I'm not a fan of one of the siblings, I like both of them.... both of them have a unique and different characteristic, also they're very lovable for the readers..... But like I was said before, from the story so far Hina is the best girl and for Hina fans, please don't make Rui as the person to blame... I think if you wanna blame someone, you can put your finger to Natsuo lol.... why he forced his relationship with his step sibling like there's no other girl? Anyway that's the story which has been set for this manga.... just enjoy it ;)
Dude, FINALLY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO DESCRIBE WHAT I THINK, I am the worst with words, and my english isn't the best, but WOW, thank you very much, I am at Hina team and I understand perfectly what you had said in this.
You're looking at it as a competition of sacrifices. It seems like both sides are biased even if you don't necessarily hate the other potential partner. While Hina did risk the most, it's not fair to simply say she loves Natsuo more than Rui because of that. Hina and Natsuo would obviously face more struggles in their relationship seeing as there's the age gap between them and the fact that Hina was also his teacher when they entered a relationship. At this point, I think both Rui and Hina deeply cares for Natsuo equally and don't mind which one he ends up with as long as he stops this indecisive bs and starts being more honest. If that doesn't happen, I'd prefer he just lose them both. I do admire Hina's resolve, but I also understand that Rui is just a normal inexperienced girl that's dealing with some tough issues for her first relationship. I think Natsuo could do with some more growing and be more upfront with his partner when things that could potentially put his relationship in jeopardy happens. Like being kissed by the girl that was previously caught breaking into your house. Why wouldn't he be honest about it and tell his partner as soon as possible instead of letting them find out on their own knowing they're already worried about other things, I have no clue. I think alot of issues with Rui -Natuso caused himself. If she's losing trust in him then that's because he's too friendly towards other women and doesn't make it apparent when lines are being crossed or doesn't tell her what's up until things are about to blow up and he doesn't have any other option. As far as Hina goes, I feel bad for her because she really does want to be with Natsuo, but she also wants to do right by her sister. I agree that the whole thing with Natsuo being stabbed was her fault for not speaking up about being stalked until shit hit the fan tho and it's annoying how she tries to bottle everything in even tho both Rui and Natsuo tells her they're there for her. I also think Rui is going a bit too far with this breakup and it was a bs pull by the author, but if you ignore that last point, again, Natsuo is mostly to blame here for not being upfront and being too friendly towards other women, especially the same woman that snuck into his house and got caught by his girlfriend.
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Well said...100% agreed 👍...
Just thinking about hinas conditions hits my mind and heart really hard😫
- AAkagi2019-01-16 04:51:56.411Z2019-01-16 05:01:29.066Z
Isn't this the same situation as Hina was? Only in this case, apparently, Rui wants to test their and Natsuo feelings. Like: "we are free from obligations, but if we still love each other when I come back, then we will meet again". That's how I see the situation. But it doesn't work that way. And this has already been shown in the case of Hina.
I almost hate the author for such is the narrative frills.
Still in Rui team.
Although I'm starting to think Serizawa would be a better choice here. At least she's honest and without cockroaches in her head, like two sisters, but this is Mrs. Kei, it's not gonna end like this.
Really hope that the author will not make a timeskip and will not bring the story to where the story goes now.
Totally agree with your analysis. Except that I find Serizawa so boring that I hope Natsuo won't end with her...................
- In reply toAkagi⬆:
No, most likely she is not for testing Natsuo feelings. Probably she fells that she is the one that prevents Natsuo's success and she has to set him free for his dream to be fulfilled.
What is the relation between Rui and Natsuo dream??? There's never been an issue about that from the story so far......
In reality maybe none, the question is how she feels about that. It is possible she thinks that she's become a nuisance instead than supporting him and from afar she thinks she could not support him anyway. So the best she can do forhim/his dream is to let him find someone that could fully support him. I don't think she's doing that for not being hurt.
- In reply toAkagi⬆:
I hope that's the best case. Would at least be the most acceptable reason for me
- AAminnudinBDG2019-01-15 19:56:02.515Z
Hina is the right choice, i don't care rui with the chef, ya though he looks boring character, #
- In reply toAminnudinBDG⬆:
Hina's boring too. Serizawa as well. I thought Rui wasn't but right now, if she's serious, she'll become boring to me too. Poor Natsuo, with all those boring girls....
- Ffkthesixbraves2019-01-16 21:58:50.963Z
Screw these cliffhangers man... The possibilities I can think of are:
- Where it's a joke and the next chapter just laughs it off (I wish)
- Rui could think she's ruining Natsuo's writing progress as his longing and worry for Rui while she is away is clouding his thoughts, so she thinks it's better to just break up and have him move on for now (because long distance relationships tend to not work out) and then they can get back together if it's the case where they still love each other
- Rui wants to test their ability to trust each other and by breaking up, she is giving room for Natsuo to do as he pleases and go out with another girl like Serizawa if Natsuo actually likes her more, but if he just waits for Rui then they can get back together
I think it's somewhere along those lines, but there are many other possibilities.
I definitely don't think Rui would simply break up because she will date her co-worker or out of spite, because she is probably the most mature girl in the manga and she truly loves Natsuo. All her actions were to support Natsuo everytime he's depressed or in a slump, a good example being when she takes him up the mountain to clear his mind and help him with his writing. Hence, this big change of breaking up is perhaps is another one of her means to help Natsuo.
- blastrophe2019-01-16 23:20:23.090Z
I think this is a good prediction of Rui's thoughts https://bakadataforum.talkyard.net/-206#post-7
lol thanks for not directly saying my thoughts r bad haha. Do you know when the next english-translated chapters will be released? I actually feel so hollow inside right now because I've been binge-reading the manga from ch1-212 for 2 days since I first watched the anime adaptation of this manga, and all I think about is Rui channnn! I'm desperate to read more... Please send help...
- blastrophe2019-01-17 00:40:36.742Z
Oh no that's not what I meant lol I liked yours too. I mean your second option is similar to their option b lol No I don't know. Is there even a scanlation group that does it? I've always read the raw and then read bakadata's summary to make sense of it.
- In reply tofkthesixbraves⬆:smashhbro2019-01-20 19:02:03.672Z
Think you're spot on with your second assumption. At least I think that's what this is about
- blastrophe2019-01-16 05:45:20.995Z
You mean that she will be apart from Natsuo for a while and then get back?
Why? Senseless drama is much expected with Mrs. Kei at the steering wheel...
- BakaData2019-01-15 19:34:20.461Z
True that...well now I'm curious what her reasons are 🤔
Possibility A) She feels guilty for having "stolen" Hina and thinks she does not deserve to stay with Natsuo
Possibility B) She thinks she's too destructive in her relationship and the reason that Natsuo stopped writing is because of her "killing" his fantasy. This also because she may think she has "forced" her feelings on Natsuo.
Possibility C) (variant of B) She feels she's too immature because Natsuo is her first love, she does not know love well so she does not know if what she feels is true love or possessivity. So he sets both of them free to see if they can come tu understand themselves.
Or some idiotic reason like this
- BakaData2019-01-15 21:23:19.992Z
I like possibility B. Feel like that's the kind of reason she will state next chapter. That would be pretty selfish of her to assume and make a judgment without talking to him first though.
Re-reading all the chapters, however, it's more possible to have C) as first choice and B) as a second. A) theoretically is already not possclick to show
- In reply toBakaData⬆:
Probably it will be a mix of the above. There is also a chance that she tells Natsuo about Hina and her motivation when they broke up.
- In reply tobluelion⬆:blastrophe2019-01-16 05:43:05.435Z
Great points dude. Did you expect Rui would pull this off?
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